mdlbear | Done yesterday (20101128 Su)

1128 Su
  & awake 7:30; snuggle
  * up 8:00; W=193.8; drugs, nose, teeth; coffee, eyes, dishes
  @ I, Cringely » Blog Archive » The Decline and Fall of E-Mail 
  @ List of English words of Sanskrit origin via Namaste via cflute 
  @ What's the point of Windows Home Server? | ZDNet UK
  * wiping Dorsai's disk finished; partitioned.
  @ ShopNothing Helps You Buy Nothing : TreeHugger 
  * walk: to Naglee and back; ~:30 (1.6mi according to google maps)
  * pick up Bruce Martz at BART in Fremont
  * 4:50 YD returns flt 1611
  : phone conversations with Al, Mom
  * rice with garbanzo beans to go with the chili Kat made.
  & staying the hell out of the living room, between YD and TV.
  % why do people (well, ok, the YD) get irate when I ask questions?  Or try
    to tell them something?
  * install Squeeze beta 1 on Dorsai
  @ Rights of Writers: Can I Say That My Story Was Not Previously Published?
    via inkygirl
  * take out garbage, since YD is still gimpy from her sprained ankle
  * dorsai minimal setup:  emacs, IP address, ssh host key, authorized_keys
    for root.

I took a walk! It was only about half an hour, after which I had to spend the rest of the afternoon playing cab-driver, collecting Eileen's dad at the Fremont BART station, then the YD at the airport. But I did get a walk in. Finally.

I also did a clean install of Debian Squeeze (testing) on Dorsai, my old desktop machine. Did the minimum necessary to give it its old identity back, then turned it off because I don't actually need it right now.

Why does the YD, and to a lesser extent Colleen, keep getting upset every time I try to tell her something? "Stop lecturing me!" when all I was saying was, "Next time tell me you're in the arrival area instead of saying you're next to the Southwest departure sign." And again trying to straigten out her stupid prepaid debit cards. I don't read minds, remember? And I may have a real reason for wanting an unambiguous yes/no answer to a simple question, even when you think you already said that as a non-answer to some other question. Baffled bear.

*sighs*

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

re upset at asking questions or telling something: It may be something in your tone of voice, as opposed to the actual words - many people misinterpret things that way. Tony and Terri have misinterpreted me as upset/yelling when I was excited, for instance, and I find that a very hard thing to change.

Probably. It's a long-standing problem.

Yeah; next to impossible to change.

When you need information, instead of phrasing it as an instruction, try to phrase it as a question, the simpler the better. Not "Next time, tell me you're in the arrival area," but "Which level of the terminal are you on?". If you ask a question and the person responds with "I already told you that!", you can say "I just want to be sure I've got it," or even "I'm not sure I got it right." Don't give them "Next time..." instructions, because that does sound rather like a lecture, or even a scolding, depending on tone of voice. Don't give instructions for next time; just ask the questions as necessary, each time. Eventually they will unconsciously fall into the habit of organizing the information the way you need it (or at least closer to the way you need it).

Unfortunately, even when I try to explain that I still don't understand what I've been told, I get a reaction that varies between "I already told you that" and "I don't want to listen to you any more".

Apparently I'm supposed to read minds. And I can't always ask questions; sometimes somebody simply does something that needs correction. In this case, she gave me very clear directions, which I asked for clarification about, that turned out to be misleading. And got angry at me both for parking in "the wrong place" and for trying to explain why I'd done it and what she could do to prevent such a misunderstanding next time.

You can change the way you say things, but you can't change the way other people say things. It appears that you and your family have fallen into a pattern of mis-communication, in which any attempt by you to repair the connection is perceived as a personal attack. Moreover, any meta-attempt to repair the pattern is also perceived as a personal attack. I don't know how to fix that, but I do know you can't fix it by yourself. The only thing I can suggest is to get a neutral outsider to help... but even that might be taken wrong :-(

Let me second both the previous comments.

Body language and tone of voice are probably the bigger parts of the "lecture" perception, in my experience.

My family, for a very long time, kept asking me why I was angry with them, when I wasn't angry (that I was aware of). I was CONFUSED. Apparently my confused face looks a lot like an angry face. Also, my tone of voice goes on into "angry tone" easily, especially if I'm frustrated trying to get unconfused.

Definitely keep it focused on what is happening right now, not what might happen next time. With a lot of "I" statements, as in "I'm not sure I got it right" or "Last time I didn't catch what you said accurately, so could you help me by..."

Or, you know, ask THEM what made it seem like you were lecturing, and let them know it's because you really don't want to be doing that...

My frustrated voice definitely sounds to them like an angry voice. Which is frustrating.

Asking follow-up questions to try to clarify what they (i.e. the YD, and Colleen to a lesser extent) just said seems to be even more upsetting/infuriating than not understanding them in the first place. Can't win.

It sounds as though they may interpret it as a criticism, even though you may not have meant it that way at all, and that tends to trigger defensiveness. Since I'm occasionally guilty of being hyper-defensive myself, the scenario sounds familiar. I'd second (third?) the suggestion to try phrasing as a question. Helps make it less likely that an innocent request will be mistaken for an accusation.

I get defensive responses when I ask questions, too. Can't win. And as I mention in my response to

acelightning, I'm especially likely to get it in response to a "here's how you can prevent misunderstanding next time" comment.

I understand that it's getting interpreted as a criticism, but how can I impart the information given that the person is already mad at me for misunderstanding, and is acting as though that misunderstanding is a combination of massive stupidity and a personal attack?

When the other person is already upset with you, it may not be possible to get through that wall. But it sounds like trying to discuss it at other times doesn't work, either. That's unfortunate. You really need cooperation to resolve something like this. I find it interesting that the retort was "Stop lecturing me" - that's very close to the proverbial teenage "don't tell me what to do". Any chance the YD isn't interpreting it as criticism as much as just hearing what seems to be a didactic adult voice and reacting accordingly?

Entirely possible; she is a teenager, and it's a pattern of long standing.

there are ways and ways of asking questions... I'd try putting in 'please' a lot, expressing asking them to help you figure out ways to rephrase things and trying to ask questions that are honest requests for information and don't sound like complaints phrased as a question. if it actually is a complaint, say so - and be prepared to have an honest discussion about whethere it's a fair complaint for you to make. it kind of sounds like you're mixing up complaints and requests for information and they're different protocols; even if they're on the same topic, you'll get collisions if they go down the bus at the same time.

for extra points, be sure to avoid mixing arguments about topics and arguments about ways to deal with issues - unless you're all able to have the argument and move onto the resolution, mixing protocol discussions with live interactions makes neither very productive!

EDIT none of this is about who's 'right' in the discussion by the way - it's about untangling the discussion from the method of discussion and negotiating a way of having the discussion you need to have.

Edited 2010-12-01 16:08 (UTC)

Thanks -- good advice

"Hey, next time, would you please tell me you're in the arrival area instead of departure?"

Or words to that effect. It takes the sting out of the request, rather than coming across as being a command or demand.

And no, I'm not good at it either. but I'm working on it.

Done yesterday (20101128 Su)

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