River: Seeing the fnords

[mdlbear]

Over the last month or so I've realized that most of what I thought I knew about myself is simply wrong. That's unsettling. The most recent epiphany, as of yesterday, was realizing that much of my behavior is explained as avoidance of conflict rather than embarrassment.

(This seems to explain a lot: some of my hatred of sports, lack of competitiveness, inability to ask for things where I might have to argue for them, inability to talk with Colleen about finances and some other matters, excessive apologizing,... More on this later, perhaps.)

I've also realized that I still have no idea what most of my real problems are. I know that they're mostly a set of habits I've developed to avoid things I find painful: conflict, embarrassment, thinking about my (depressed) mood... I don't yet have the tools for identifying them, much less fixing them -- it's hard to see all the fnords.

OK, new tag: fnords.

Once I see one of these problems I can start thinking about how to fix it. Or deciding whether or when it's a problem: avoiding conflict is probably a good thing, much of the time. So is avoiding embarrassment. But sometimes they get in the way of other goals; I can't make an informed decision if the avoidance maneuver is so automatic that I don't have time to think about it. It's like a kid who automatically replies "no" to every question -- I remember being that kid once, when asked whether I wanted to go to the zoo. Oops. Probably lots of other times that I don't remember.

I have enough trouble trying to figure out what my mood even is. Discovered a couple of days ago that I can't always distinguish reliably between anxiety and depression, which ought to feel different somehow. And how do I tell whether my mood has gotten better than "just OK" when I don't have anything better to calibrate it against? How, for that matter, do I distinguish between what I actually feel and what I think I ought to be feeling given my analysis of the situation?

This has gotten disjointed, and appears to be turning into a mere list of "this is hard" complaints. It is hard, but I should probably stop now.

Comments

[thatcrazycajun.livejournal.com]

Please keep writing about this as much as you are able; I see myself in a lot of what you have written, in this entry and others. It may help both of us.

And on a lighter note, now you've got me trying to come up with a "pining for the fnords" joke... (Overexposure to Monty Python at a tender age, donchaknow.)

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Anxiety and depression are actually related, I think. So maybe it's not so odd you're having trouble distinguishing them, especially since you're only recently learning to monitor your moods at all.

I'm guessing it takes practice to learn to perceive moods, so I'd suggest you keep trying and give yourself time. After all, if you'd never used your legs until the past year you'd expect to be kind of awkward and fumbling when it came to walking.

[wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com]

You have right here identified a problem, and it's much akin to being able to tell if a note is slightly high or slightly flat. Once you decide there is something to be gained from learning that, you start to pay more attention, both to the sounds and to the feedback that helps you in the meantime. After a while, either suddenly or gradually, depending on how your brain works, you can tell the difference. As you pay more attention, you will notice things you never noticed before (just as you noticed this).

Just keep in mind, though it may not feel good to identify all these problems, once identified you can do something--you can apply logic and your other skills to seek solutions and/or work-arounds.

As to depression and anxiety, from what you've said, anxiety may trigger you into depression all or most of the time. If it's all the time, you will continue to feel depression when you're anxious for some time, at least until you internalize that you don't have to feel depressed when anxious. Even if this isn't the case, right now most of the things you have reason to feel depressed about are perfectly good reasons to feel anxious, so right now the two may feel the same because you are feeling both at the same time about the same things.

[firecat]

Interesting about avoidance of conflict/competitiveness leading to hatred of sports for you. I avoid conflict (which I have started to think of as a good thing, at least some of the time) but I like sports OK.

Um, when other people are playing the sports. I don't like playing competitive-against-other-people games of any sort. I'm OK with competing against a computer or against myself.

Inability to ask for things - OK, I'm wondering if this is playing into your dislike of making phone calls. Do you relate to the phrase "I don't want to be a bother?" That is part of my upbringing, and it's connected to my dislike of making phone calls. I consider a phone call potentially interrupting, even if I think I'm phoning someone who wants to talk to me.

Anxiety and depression are very strongly linked for me. I think what happens is that when I feel anxiety, my body tries to suppress the unpleasant physical sensations that go along with anxiety by shutting down as much activity as possible. Which is depression.

As for figuring out your mood, asking other people who know you well is one way to calibrate those things. Same goes for distinguishing between what you feel and what you "ought to" feel. Given the amount of stress in your life right now, I personally would consider it sufficient evidence that your AD is working if you can get through your day without meltdowns.

From here, which, mind, is not a particularly up-close vantage point, I see fewer reports of meltdowns and I see fewer really-unhappy-sounding posts and I see more thoughtful posts. And to me that looks like progress.

[kyrielle]

Grain of salt notice: in my case, I don't need medication, so my experiences may be mild enough not to translate well to anyone who does; I don't know. That is, I don't know if my anxiety/depression are sub-clinical. That said --

Another thought on depression and anxiety, besides those already expressed - sometimes, my anxiety manifests depression as a defense mechanism because the dropped energy/mood levels give me an out from doing what I'm anxious about - the depression hits as a defense against the thing that made me feel the anxiety. If you don't realize the anxiety's hitting and the depression comes up behind it, either as a defense mechanism or because anxiety is upsetting/depressing, it would be easy to think it was just depression you were feeling. (In my case, anxiety almost always manifests nasty tension cramps as well, so I have an advantage in spotting it. If you can call that an advantage. I'm not very appreciative of it when it happens, though.)

Maybe instead of trying to track 'mood' you should try to track 'energy levels' (mental as well as or more than physical) and 'avoidance of things'? Depression usually ties to lower energy levels, and anxiety will tend to cause avoidance of tasks tied to the anxiety (whether directly tied or indirectly).

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

My-son-the-psychologist says that anxiety and depression are always found together; it's just a matter of which one happens to be in ascendance. And people become depressed at being anxious all the time, and/or anxious because they're depressed all the time. (And if the two states alternate vigorously, you have a bipolar person.) Furthermore, anxiety and/or depression may actually be the underlying cause of many other dysfunctions; for example, a person who's anxious all the time is too distracted by their anxiety to pay attention to anything else for very long, and so gets diagnosed as having ADD.

Instead of asking yourself, "How do I feel?", you might find it easier to answer "What am I thinking about?".

[nosebeepbear.livejournal.com]

can't always distinguish reliably between anxiety and depression

For me they so often happen at the same time, or lead into each other, that they blur. Just last night I was feeling too depressed to sleep, and my brain was going over and over unhappy thoughts. It took me over an hour to figure out the circle of depressing thoughts were actually all about fear. At which point I took an ativan and went to sleep.