River: totally made of fail

[mdlbear]

I don't have a name for this problem, let alone any idea of how to go about solving it. Somebody please help.

What is it called when you know that there's something fairly simple that you have to do to make things better -- a phone call, or an email, or even a bit of hardware or software work -- but you don't do it. I can sit staring at my phone for an hour, not doing anything at all except getting more and more depressed, rather than call AT&T to deal with my cell phone bill, or simply call a friend to say hello. I can continue to do this every damned day for a month. I'm still doing it.

I put off signing up for long-term care insurance every damned day for a decade. I'm still doing it. I put off moving my email off of the DSL line right up until yesterday when the line went away. The same thing happened two or three years ago with news -- I still don't have that back up either.

I mentioned this yesterday, but somehow the discussion got sidetracked into, I don't know, practical suggestions for dealing with phone calls that didn't address the actual underlying problem, which I knew damned well was the problem but couldn't -- or at least didn't -- articulate.

This goes well beyond simple procrastination. I don't have any idea what it is, or what to do.

Comments

[shapirac.livejournal.com]

The only solution I found for this problem is to get someone else to do the dreadful thing for me or at least with me.
Of course, this doesn't always work, and so I'm also putting off several important errands indefinitely.

[fractalwolf.livejournal.com]

I second this, especially when it comes to communications -- just running through it with my wife helps TREMENDOUSLY. When I'm contacting someone else I trust her to point out when I'm missing saying something important or I'm saying too much . Normally she just says "Yeah, that sounds reasonable," but it makes me feel so much better. I have to do the communication at the next reasonable opportunity, though, or I start questioning whether I'm remembeing what I ran past her correctly.

With stuff coming to me it's always helpful to have her as a second pair of eyes, to confirm that I'm understanding correctly before I decide on a response.

[mia-mcdavid.livejournal.com]

This kind of lack of ooomph is, I believe, associated with clinical depression. Remember that you have not been on the meds long, and you may not yet be taking an effective dose; the doctor will have to observe you over time to get this figured out. Also, different meds work best on different people; it is an inexact science.

You ARE doing the right things to alleviate this; it's just going to take time. Hang in there, OK? And, don't blame yourself. If you had a broken leg, you wouldn't blame yourself for not being able to run!

[mdlbear]

Yes, but not being able to so much as crawl for the next half-year or two is still discouraging.

[bercilakslady.livejournal.com]

Maybe print this out and give it to your therapist. It's already written out, and that way you don't have to think about how to say it/bring it up.

[mdlbear]

If I remember. I had a stack of stuff printed out Tuesday for yesterday's appointment, and left it on my desk at work.

[selenesue.livejournal.com]

I don't know what to call it but I do it too. Every damned year with my tax appointment. I was particularly immobilized this year on account of buying a new house - I have NO idea what to do or what to bring or anything. Terror-immobilization?

Reading this post made me turn around and call to make the appointment. So, know that by expressing yourself, you have managed to help someone else summon the courage to overcome it. Thank you Steve.

[mdlbear]

You're welcome.

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

It's probably a well-dressed anxiety of some sort. Fear is seductive and the act is connected to something which scares you--or you have persuaded yourself that it is--and so you avoid it. One thing that helps me is to get someone to sit with me for support, but I don't know what will work for you.

[mdlbear]

"well-dressed"???? (Total incomprehension.)

I usually

[capplor.livejournal.com]

consider it a form of stage fright.

I really wouldn't consider your session yesterday a waste of time.

The underlying problem (whatever it is) is a big and hard to get to (especially for a therapist who has just met you, and at best,needs time to get to big questions). The best you and s/he can do right now is splint the problem and figure out healing when you've got a handle on immediate stuff.

Re: I usually

[mdlbear]

Well, my next appointment isn't for aother month. How do I "splint the problem"? Especially when I have no idea what the underlying problem is?

[lapislaz.livejournal.com]

Mind you, I am not a therapist. But maybe you could sit down and write out a list of calls you need to make. Then on the other side of the paper list a bunch of your favorite "guilty pleasures" that you only do when you feel you need a lift or a reward.

Then match them up - one phone call to AT&T gets you a reward of one triple-dip ice cream cone with sprinkles (or whatever floats your boat).

If it worked on Pavlov's dogs, it may work for you, too. (Not that you're a dog, dear.)

[mdlbear]

"Guilty pleasures" ... I can't think of any offhand. I'm not even sure there's much that will give me a lift of any kind that isn't something I do without an excuse, like eating chocolate, or is horrendously expensive, like going to a con.

Add anhedonia to the list?

[mithriltabby]

I call it mental exhaustion, and (as mia_mcdavid observes) often associate that with times when I’m depressed; if your feeling is the same as mine in this situation, it’s like looking at a steep hill you have to climb when you feel like you’re too tired to make it to the top. Making decisions requires cognitive resources; there have been recent studies that show that decision-making does get used up after a while and needs refreshing, and if you’re having to deal with a whole lot more things that require decision-making lately because of your wife’s infirmities, that can be very tiring. (With obsessivewoman’s problems with her ankle, that’s how it’s been for me, and you’re facing much more worrisome problems.) I generally deal with things by breaking them down into a priority list and setting alarms in my PDA, but that’s still easy to hit Snooze for. When it’s things that need doing on a weekend, I can make a point of getting a good night’s sleep and then resolving to tackle a particular thing after lunch, but when it requires coping with when I’m also handling a day job, it can get quite difficult.

[wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com]

When you do it occasionally, it's called procrastination. When you do it consistently for one thing (like getting taxes done) it is probably anxiety or avoidance for some other task-related reason.

When you do it for lots of things, all at once, it's depression.

I'm going to suggest you get a jar, and every time you manage to do one of these things, you put a grain of rice in the jar. Every time. And tell yourself you did good; if your brain chemistry is locked in "on hold" mode, getting it out of that mode for even a tiny task is an accomplishment. Your logic brain may be trying to tell you that the task "should be" easy, but if it's not easy, it's not, and you deserve the recognition that you did it when it was not easy, at least from yourself.

Using the jar is for the future--after a while, you will be able to look at the jar and see that you can overcome the inertia, that you can get things done, one at a time. And that no matter how small each one is, they add up.

If you don't want to use real rice, I bet you could program something, so every time you checked off an item on a computerized to-do list, a virtual grain of rice would go in a jar (or some more colorful image, such as flowers/butterflies in a field or stars in a sky) on a screen-saver or desktop...hmm, I bet other people would find something like that useful!

[zencuppa.livejournal.com]

I really like that "Jar" idea thanks!!!!

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

Either avoidance or depression?

[mdlbear]

Or both, I suppose.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

I'm going to be up there the 13th and 14th for AOD - can you come into the city and have a sit with me?

The very least I can offer is a hug and a pat on the back. You're not doing a damn thing wrong, and I can tell you why in very small words. Really really.

As far as fixing this? What exactly would a fix for this look like to you?

[mdlbear]

AOD? Unfortunately, the entire weekend from the 13th thru 16th looks busy -- cflute and pocketnaomi are flying down from Seattle for music. I'd love to, otherwise.

You could call me some lunchtime. Cell number on http://thestarport.org/suites/Starport/

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

What popped into my brain as I read this was "clinical depression."

Of course, I am not a doctor.

Personally, though, I think wyld_dandelion is on the money with this. And I think you should print this post out and bring it with you to your next meeting with your therapist.

[mdlbear]

Well, since I've already been diagnosed with clinical depression, it's probably as good a name for it as any.

As for printing it out, yes, but see my reply to capplor.

[faxpaladin.livejournal.com]

Been there, doing that... sigh...

[fractalwolf.livejournal.com]

This sounds like me when I'm depressed, and I don't have much to add except my sympathy and one tool I've found that helps me.

I make a list of things I need to do. I don't try to make an exhaustive list -- I just add to it as things occur to me. Then when I feel a little good (read: better than totally mentally immobilized) I pick something from the list and do it. I think it works for me because I think of it less as "doing this thing which I've been blocked over" and more as "crossing something off the list".

It also helps, I think, that once I write it down on the list there isn't part of my brain that's obsessing over it, saying "Don't forget this. Don't forget this. I know you don't want to do it, but don't forget it."

Sometimes I limit the list to the blocked items, but sometimes it helps to have only a small number of blocked things on the list, mixed in with a bunch of things I *can* regularly do. Then when I've crossed the first n items off the list, crossing the n+1 item off is somehow easier than it would be if that were the only thing I was focusing on doing.

For me it's very important to have that crossed-off list, not to just delete things as I finish them. It saves me from feeling like I haven't accomplished anything at the end of the day whenever there's anything left on the list.

[mdlbear]

I have a list. It is not, however, a little list.

(steve 519) grep " o " to.do | wc -l
290

[sweetmusic-27.livejournal.com]

I call it "being stuck." Sure, I need to do something (something easy, something I do all the time - pick up some bread and milk, or go to the gym, call my mom, anything) but somehow I just can't wrestle myself away from my comfychair and episode of Star Trek. In fact, I haven't been able to do this small task yesterday or the day before.

Sometimes, I can get out of the rut by changing one tiny thing. If I can't find the will to actually pick up the phone, or put on my shoes, I'll change my method of procrastination. Instead of watching Trek, I'll play Peggle. I'm still at the computer, I'm still in the comfychair, I'm still "stuck," but somewhere in the back of my mind I know I'm doing something different. And even the smallest feeling of power over my listlessness helps.

Or I can start doing preliminary stuff while continuing whatever method of procrastination. I'm watching Star Trek, but I'm making a grocery list, or programming the number I have to call into my phone, or packing my gym bag. It prepares my mind for the task, and then when I do get around to it, it's less onerous.

Or I'll decide days ahead that I will do lots of things on one day. Like, Tuesday's going to be my productive day. I bundle it all together, I get everything I can done, and Wednesday I sleep and complain a lot. It works for me because it's a self-imposed deadline, and I know exactly when it's coming and why and how.

But I try very hard not to feel guilty. My rest and procrastination time isn't nearly as effective if the whole time I'm thinking, "I should be doing x and y and z and a and b and c, oh god, this is terrible, I'm terrible." You've got to take it one day at a time and not beat yourself up too much. *hugs* Good luck!

[mdlbear]

Good suggestions. Thanks.

Not sure about not feeling guilty. I mean, it's a good idea; I'm just not sure whether it would help, or make things worse by giving me one more excuse.

[firecat]

In some people it is a depression symptom. Depression is not just feeling bad and having unpleasant thoughts -- it is a disease that attacks motivation. I have had this all my life.

It can also be a symptom of exhaustion that's happening for other reasons (e.g., I had it worse when my sleep apnea was untreated).

For me it tends to be worse after I've been involved in some intense activity that pushed my limits. When the intense activity is finished, my motivation goes below my usual baseline for a while.

I don't really know what to do about it either, other than not expect myself to do more than I am capable of. So I will following this particular thread with interest to see if your friends and therapist have any suggestions I haven't thought of.

[mdlbear]

Thanks. It's probably part of the depression, as you say.

I'm not sure putting a name to it helps with getting things done, but it does appear to help a little with the guilt and depression.

[ravan.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. In people with brain injury, it's sometimes called "initiation problems" - trouble getting started, especially on complex or unpleasant tasks. In my case, I know what I need to do, when I need to do it by, and I can sit there and not be able to do it. Then anything distracts me from it, and its never done.

Like with 15 minutes, the only way I've even had any success getting around it is to break it down very small, and ram myself through a checklist.

[artbeco.livejournal.com]

Well, you're certainly not alone in this; I for one have done it on various things over the years, whether it's simply being unable to make phone calls or dealing with money issues that _really_ need dealing with but I just can't face or various other things. There's just a total lack of cope there for some of those things. I still haven't mastered them; I can occasionally force myself to deal with one of them, but more often I procrastinate and put off and it does indeed affect things and create more problems than it would have if I'd just been able to deal with the original problem in the first place. I don't know the label for it either. And perhaps the most effective solution to some of those blocks has ended up being to ask Paul for help in dealing with whatever the latest one is. And he usually ends up dealing with it easily and quickly and I feel rather stupid at best for my inability to cope. The latest hardest one has been dealing with health insurance issues from my broken leg; I was just incoherent and totally unable to deal with the doctor's unreasonable bills and the insurance company. Thank god for Paul, really.

Boy, writing all that makes me sound or at least feel totally screwed up. I rarely admit to such things; I find these incidents somehow shaming in my own life, yet when you talk of it there's a recognition and a kind of relief in seeing it in someone else. Thank you for being so open and talking about it. I'm sorry I don't have any easy solutions to offer; if you discover ways to deal with them I'll gratefully pick up any tidbits for coping you can share. :)

[mdlbear]

You're very welcome -- one of the reasons I keep doing this, quite aside from the occasional fantastic suggestion or bit of feedback, is the fact that I can sometimes help my friends merely by thinking through my own problems.

Knowing I'm not the only one helps a great deal.

Feel free to call me sometime. Any time.

[donsimpson.livejournal.com]

According to some stuff I've read recently (can't find the reference at the moment) depression _is_ a sort of brain damage; the neural connections deteriorate. Exercise and some drugs help restore the connections. Both take time (like, weeks) to become effective. I an on the lots of exercise plan.

Lots of good advice above on working around the problem; I have nothing to add there.

Depression _is_ very unmotivating. Decision making does use a part of the brain that gets tired and less good at deciding after a while. Some tasks do trigger old fears without telling you that it is a fear or what you fear, and get you to put things off. And the more you put a particular thing off, the more of a habit it becomes.

When you sit and watch yourself not do something you know is important, it's scary and it shows you that knowledge is not motivating. Our drives, our passions, all that irrational stuff is what causes us to actually do (or not do) things. Knowledge is just input to the drives. A good part of human culture is programming connections between drives and other stuff. The less you react to those connections, the weaker they get. Of course, you have to have confidence in your reactions in order to react; enough frustrations will program you for apathy.

[wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com]

Maybe try thinking of this a different way.

Your mental "muscles" have gotten "out of shape" for certain types of "exercise". This could have happened with disuse, or due to an underlying issue, but right now I'd say a significant part is emotional trauma, which is just as real to your mental muscles as a car accident is to your physical muscles.

So, you have to do the equivalent of physical therapy, to rebuild the mental muscles.

Right after a car accident, even a mild one, people can have trouble getting up, bending, sleeping--doing just about anything. They're not paralyzed, but they can't do hardly anything. Even getting to the bathroom can seem insurmountable. And if they have an underlying issue, the underlying condition is exacerbated--for a time it is worse than it was before.

So, first, if there's things that were hard before this current trauma, finding them harder now is natural. The therapist will help you figure out what long-term problems there are that were made temporarily worse by this trauma. But in the meantime, when the initial shock to the system starts to heal, your previous coping mechanisms may well start working again.

Next, you do the mental equivalent of physical therapy - start doing those hard things by starting with the easiest ones, carefully, but consistently, to rebuild the "muscles" that were damaged. If you can't do a thing all at once, break it down into smaller actions and practice those.

And get sleep and good food and music and the other good things in life. They will help, even if you don't believe it at this moment.

I remember being depressed in college, and grimly (very grimly) deciding that I WOULD DO a number of things I used to find fun, trusting that in doing them, eventually, I would find them, or at least most of them, fun again. Eventually, I did. But in the meantime, I used all the "crutches" I could find including things like telling myself I could go to a con if I did my homework. Never mind that I was effectively the only authority figure around (at least until report cards got mailed to parents, but at that time I couldn't manage to feel any urgency about or interest in my grades or my parents' eventual reaction); never mind that I knew full well I could go to the con regardless; logically I knew I should do the homework because my grades would affect my future, and if pretending the con was the reward for the homework got it done, then I would do that.

[mdlbear]

There's some trauma, certainly, but more of it is disuse -- my phone phobia goes back to my college years at least. So does the depression and the emotional blindness.

I'm comfortable (now) with the idea of therapy, just very discouraged about how long it's likely to take.

Nice mental trick about the rewards; I'll have to try that.

[the-s-guy.livejournal.com]

I've had this - just endless procrastination on simple things. Minutes turn into hours turn into days turn into years.

I've found recently that having a very short deadline, of any kind, can kickstart me. I'll put something in the oven for less than an hour, for example, and all of a sudden I'm productive for that one hour because my attention is on the oven timer and not on whatever it is I'm doing.

The possibility that relatives might visit in a day or two (however unlikely) gets me cleaning, tidying and repairing. Having to leave for somewhere in 30 minutes means I have to put on a load of washing RIGHT NOW, do the dishes, and tidy up the lounge. As long as something else is imminent, I can get all kinds of unrelated stuff done.