River: you're not listening

[mdlbear]

It just occurred to me that maybe Colleen's constant complaint of "you're not listening" might mean something like "I was expecting some kind of emotional reaction from you, but all I got was a logical reaction or a question."

The emotional reaction might be something like sympathy or agreement; I don't know. The question is usually a baffled request for clarification; the logical reaction is often a response to what her words actually meant rather than the thought she was trying to express.

Or maybe it sometimes just means "you didn't say what I was expecting you to say."

Comments

[jeffreycornish.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean about that.

I'm a guy. I fix things.

Hungry? Ugh, I go hunt a bison or get a pizza

Cold? Ugh, I go get bear skin for you, or turn up the temperature, or look at the thermometer and say, "but it's 71 degrees in here"

computer is being dumb? Hit it with a club, or promise to optimize the hard drive and check the network stack.

Jeri Lynn has told me "I'm not looking for a solution" on the occasions when I'm being "helpful".

So, yeah, logic. Great tool. Doesn't work with the missus on the occasion.

[mdlbear]

*grins wryly*

[callibr8]

See my comment below re compassionate communication. Might help?

[mdlbear]

Might.

Suggestion

[lindaneely.livejournal.com]

I've been married 37 years - one of the reasons I've been married so long is that early on my husband told me he needed more clues to the kind of response I was looking for. With a little practice, it's not very hard for a woman to learn to say, "I need to talk about this and I don't want you to do anything - I don't need you to try and solve it - I just need to get it off my chest." (this means she wants empathy) or "I really don't know what to do about this and I want ideas but I don't want you to make the decision about what I should do." or (a clue given some time when not in the middle of things) "When I get cranky, for no apparent reason, start with a hug and a back rub. Then we can talk." (Obviously, different women may have different starting places.) If you take some time and think about the kind of conversations that occur that have more than one possible response, then sit down with your mate and say, "I love you and I would do anything to be the man you need, but I need you to help me." How can she object? I couldn't. And, although it was awkward initially, we both learned.

By the way, I learned that when my husband's upset, he usually doesn't want a hug. He wants ideas and suggestions about whatever is bothering him. Once he has a plan of attack - then he likes hugs.

Good luck.

Re: Suggestion

[mdlbear]

Many thanks!

Re: Suggestion

[mdlbear]

It's apparently taken me thirty-odd years to figure out that this was a problem that we needed to work on.

[shadowe_wraithe]

Well after 18+ years, with a 3 year separation in the more recent end of them...I still have to poke, prod and sometimes get insistent that my hubby listen, respond or talk to me, in a way I can understand. (And a bit of therapy thrown in for very good measure here and there I might add)

((((STEVE))))

You are making progress, believe it or not. But the best thing I can say for you right now is that you are trying to sort through things. I am very proud of you. Don't give up. Many things will come to light, and with the love you two have for each other, you will eventually sort things out. Even though sometimes it may seem like that is never going to happen.

LindaNeely has a very good grasp of some ways to try to sort through the fuzziness of the *What are you actually saying/feeling/expecting* when it happens...I may try some of her suggestions myself.

Love, Hugs and Blessings,
Shadowe

[hvideo.livejournal.com]

Yes, it might well be that Colleen is looking for an emotional or sympathetic response. Women often discuss problems as a means of bonding. They may well already know what they are going to do about the problem, so the typical male response upon hearing of a problem (i.e. "Here's a solution") is neither desired nor helpful. In such a situation women are often looking for something more along the lines of "That sounds difficult (or annoying, stressful, painful, exasperating, or whatever is appropriate), what are you planning to do about it?"

Another possility is that there may be differences in what you and Colleen mean by the word "listening". Listening is sometimes broken down into subcategories. For example, it can be divided into Passive Listening (where you listen but make essentially no response), Affirmative Listening (where you might nod and say "I see" or "Go on" - you encourage the other person but don't really become part of the conversation), and there is Reflective Listening (where you are a full part of the conversation).

When Colleen says "You aren't listening" she may mean that you aren't engaged in the subcategory of listening that she wants, that you aren't giving her the feedback she is looking for. If she wants Reflective Listening and you are only engaged in Active Listening (or even worse, Passive Listening), the listening she is referring to isn't taking place even if you are confident that you ARE IN FACT LISTENING.

You might start with a Google search on "Reflective Listening" and take a look at some of the entries that come up. If they appear to be discussing problems that resemble the ones you and Colleen share, this may help you.

Restating the problem in your own words, offering a bit of sympathy for her situation and asking what she plans to do next is often a good starting point. If she already has a plan she can tell you. (If you had offered a solution immediately you would have discounted her ability to come up with solutions.) If she doesn't already have a plan she might ask for suggestions at that point. (As long as she asks, it's OK to offer.) You can show you are listening (as she uses the word) and let her guide the conversation until she reveals what she is really looking for.

As usual, it's a learned skill.

[mdlbear]

Thanks -- excellent advice.

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

When someone starts talking about a problem, I tend to react in the "masculine" way, offering concrete solutions. Believe it or not, I had to consciously learn (as part of my Priestess training) to make sympathetic noises and offer hugs - and how to tell when to use each response. For the most part, now, I tend to combine them - hugging someone while explaining how to fix whatever's wrong. With people I know reasonably well, I'll often ask, "Do you want comforting, or an actual answer, or both?" (That's a very hard question to ask without sounding condescending, though.)

[mdlbear]

I'll have to try that combination. My usual approach these days is to pull back and wait for her to calm down; hugging is almost certainly better in most cases.

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

With most people - certainly with most women, even me - pulling back is the worst thing you can do when someone is upset! Showing signs of emotional distress is almost always a nonverbal way of saying "I am badly in need of comforting!" In many cases, you won't be able to get through on a logical level at all until after you've "stopped the emotional bleeding".

[mdlbear]

Good to know. This is exactly the kind of thing I can't figure out on my own.

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

For starters, remind yourself that you can't have a rational conversation with someone whose emotional state is keeping them from being rational. Solve that problem before continuing with logic.

[mdlbear]

I did figure out that part. But clearly hugs are going to be better in most cases than leaving the room until things calm down.

The trick is going to be remembering that when neither of us is rational.

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

Maybe you should write on the inside of your wrist, in ballpoint, Hugs first!...

[mdlbear]

Hugs worked very well when I tried them a couple of days ago; it probably won't take very many repetitions to turn that one into a habit.

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

There you go - positive reinforcement!

[mia-mcdavid.livejournal.com]

"you're not listening" might mean something like "I was expecting some kind of emotional reaction from you, but all I got was a logical reaction or a question."

I understand that a common cause of friction between men and women is the fact that they use conversation differently. When a man talks about a problem, he is looking for solutions; when a woman talks about a problem, she often just needs to vent; to speak and be heard and have somebody understand. Hope this helps...

[mdlbear]

Yes; it's a difficult set of skills to learn.

I often tend to fall somewhere in between the masculine and feminine conversation styles, which can make it equally hard in both directions.

[callibr8]

My therapist has taught me about "compassionate communication", which is a very simple "script" to follow and might help in this situation.

The first step is to mirror back, "so, what you're saying is ____ happened and you felt ____ about it." Sometimes what the other party is looking for is for their feelings to be "heard", not just the description of what happened.

If you're already doing that, go you! If not, it might be worth a try.

[mdlbear]

That sounds *very* useful. Probably wouldn't help in a lot of cases, but may be something I can build off of.

Thanks.

[donsimpson.livejournal.com]

There was a blog I ran across a while back, written by a woman, which mentioned women asking questions that they knew the (factual) answers to, in hopes of getting answered in a manner that showed emotional support; and that men tended to not understand what that type of question was really about.

[mdlbear]

Yes, that sounds right. I've learned about some of that.

The converse is harder to get across: explaining to a woman that the reason I asked what sounded to her like a stupid question is that I really didn't know the answer.