River: Nice while it lasted?

[mdlbear]

My recent string of happy days seems to have ended as abruptly as it began; no telling at this point whether it will resume after a brief setback, or where the real baseline is.

It happened, ironically, as I was thinking about joy, and realizing how little I understood the concept. Someone had mentioned a friend's "ability to reach out for joy" -- and I realized with something approaching shock that I not only lacked that ability, but apparently lacked the ability to recognize it in someone else.

At this point I'm not even certain I've ever felt what other people describe as joy, let alone been able to actively seek it out. If I have it was brief, unexpected, and totally out of my control.

At this point I'd settle for mild happiness.

The centipede's dilemma? Well, in any case my plan is to try to enjoy the weekend, which promises to be busy and happy, before trying to think or write about either my very real problems or this new-found, possibly imaginary one.

Comments

[singingpatient.livejournal.com]

hmmm
a nice,. deep philosophical topic.
I understand happiness as being fleeting, and caused by otuside events such as a windfall, a fun outing, a get-together with friends.
i understand joy as something that is cultivated from within, through deeper, more meaningful events and daily choices and habits.
joy i believe we can cultivate, whereas happiness is fleeting.
that's my understanding, and it is liberating to know we are not at the whim of outside events - we can choose our moods. some psychs call this response-ability.

[mdlbear]

Fascinating.

I was working from the dictionary definition of "joy" as extreme happiness -- happiness so intense it overwhelms you. That seems to be the way it was used in the conversation, anyway.

Moods like mild happiness, calm, and contentment I understand and can sometimes cultivate. Anything more intense has been fleeting, and externally generated.

[tibicina.livejournal.com]

Oddly, I think my ways of defining joy and happiness are /exactly reversed/ from yours. Joy is something in the moment, like delight - it's about what's going on, and while it can be cultivated by taking particular notice of the things we enjoy, it's fleeting. Happiness is more long-lasting, not so extreme, but more stable, akin to contentment.

[mdlbear]

That's closer to my set of definitions as well.

(added) Yes, I can find plenty of LJ entries with "content" as the mood. My recent week or so was definitely a step up from that; maybe it's just not sustainable.

[singingpatient.livejournal.com]

i guess the choice of words is less important than the concept- being in control of your moods, creating your own happiness.

[mdlbear]

Being in control of my mood is one of the many things I don't really have a good handle on.

[singingpatient.livejournal.com]

i understand that. been there.
i kind of look at tit now a bit like trying to control my weight- it's a bunch of small choices, rather than any large dramatic thing, that add up to a cumulative effect.
every day i try to get a little sunshine (literally- if the sun shines at any point in the day, i go out with the dog, or sit out with a newspaper and magazine and soak up rays- sun has a very good effect on our moods), try to eat some fruits and/ or veggies, and not too much sugar or caffeine (which really messes with your moods), i read the comic strips every day (silly, but i always find something to smile at), spend some time playing with the dog (she's so cute she'd cheer anyone up), read something positive (like guideposts or bits and pieces), get a little exercise (also know for producing endorphins) and definitely keep a handle on the dark input such as too many crime shows or scary movies. some of it is so old and common sense and cliche, but hey that's how things become cliches. because they're true.

at one point i was reading a lot of stuf on body-mind connection, because i have an illness with no cure,
which they manage with drugs, and i wanted to get off as many of the drugs as i could without relapsing.
so i read a lot of stuff on the benefits of laughter, and on love and friendship, and how healing those things are. i was highly motivated to get as well as i could. so i purposely scheduled fun things with friends, something every week, to keep my mood up.

[drewkitty.livejournal.com]

Chasing down joy is the fastest way to have it flee.

[joecoustic.livejournal.com]

I've been going through a sort of similar situation that began not long after I posted about my feeling better. I actually don't think it's as bad as it was before but it definitely stopped feeling "better". Maybe I just don't have the really bad to compare it to anymore....

But going back to what you wrote, I've been conscious in the past of moments of joy, but happiness confuses me, or at least the way others use the term does. Maybe it's due to having such an over analyzing mind and being a devil's advocate but when put on the spot and asked if I'm happy it's just never been a question I can answer - at least in a way that satisfies the asker. But I have felt joy. More like something coming from outside of myself and not something I can define and maybe more important, not something I'm often asked to define or justify :). It sort of seems that I'm better at feeling good in the moment until asked to explain it... but I sort of knew that I guess :). I just reread what you wrote above and for me I think joy always surprises me (as opposed to reaching out for it). It's sort of serendipitous and that's what makes it so special to me.

*hugs* Looking forward to seeing you soon and getting to talk again at OVFF!! Talking with friends does make me happy - that I know.

[mdlbear]

Oh, yes!

There seem to be huge gaps in personal terminology all around, but I definitely get the difference between internally-generated, mostly-steady-state happiness and the kind of sudden joy that surprises you from outside. I can often manage the former, if you count "contented, not depressed" as happy. Comparatively few instances of the latter, at least in their extreme form (the word used earlier in the conversation was "transcendent joy"), and I don't seem to remember them very well.

*hugs* See you -- good grief! -- next weekend!! I may not get much sleep at OVFF...

[marypcb.livejournal.com]

I like the C S Lewis 'surprised by joy' version - that joy/exultation is not something you can plan for, it just happens and that usually you're joyful without thinkng about it and when you hink about it it can evaporate under scrutiny.

happiness for me is the generally feeling good, better than contentment stage. there are things that put me there, there are things that stop me feeling it, but whether it's base state or state to aim for varies with a wide list of externalities...

[mdlbear]

I definitely had Lewis in mind.

[tiggerypum.livejournal.com]

a bit late to this... but a few comments which are first to your post, although I also read the responses.

First, the grass is greener is only going to bring unhappiness - if you compare your experience and your life to others and find something you -think- is lacking, don't fall into a pit of despair over it.

Secondly, emotions are a fluid thing. Being 'less happy' for a day or some hours does not mean -anything-. It certainly doesn't mean anything about the future. Getting upset about it, resisting it (wanting 'not-something' still has the focus on something), dwelling on it, and doing things to reinforce the state (being drawn to sad music or bad news, of which there is no end) --can-- extend the state.

It's in that area that being a bit conscious about how we're feeling and what we're doing can help. Yes, cheerier music might not fit the mood, or will watching some comedy, but it might slowly shake it loose and give the opening for moving to another more relaxed state when you're ready. And as one poster commented, doing little things to help keep things 'healthy' can help.

Btw, if someone was -always- happy/content/calm/name your 'ideal' state -- life would be boring! This doesn't mean that one can't do things to help be calmER, happiER, and have a feeling of well being or content a larger portion of the time, but when experiencing life, things move and change.

And there also is the science (even though perhaps incomplete) that we are really dealing with chemistry in a system. Which is why exercise, sunshine, eating well - and even getting 'used to' feeling happy more of the time - changes things. Some doctors believe that the reason some of the 'happy drugs' can take months for full effect is because it takes a while for the brain to regrow receptors that haven't been getting much use. So on that count, the more time you spend experiencing some level of 'happy' the more 'happy' you can experience - it's almost like a muscle.

Be well, my friend, and keep doing good and nurturing things for yourself. I hope you're having a good day today.

[mdlbear]

Thanks. My moods are certainly a lot more volatile lately; I'm still in very unfamiliar territory.

I don't think comedy will help -- most of what passes for comedy these days is actively painful to me. Instrumental music maybe; anything with words eats up too much attention.

Maybe I should write more poetry. Or software... Doing something creative usually does give me a bit of a boost.

It's a good day so far...

Joy is good.

[impresaria1.livejournal.com]

for me it has mostly had to do with what I was doing, but most of all when I was praying. That may seem very weird, but it is true.

It's difficult to remember at the moment, but I've been there a lot.

It is possible you are low on serotonin, and a little tryptophan might help with the baseline level (it's a serotonin precursor)

I don't understand "reaching out for joy" unless she's a hot stripper...

Re: Joy is good.

[mdlbear]

The prayer doesn't surprise me at all; not an option for me, though.

Tryptophan, as I understand it, would also make me sleepy; I'm trying vitamin D at the moment.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who didn't understand "reaching out for joy". I know a hot stripper, but her name isn't Joy.

Re: Joy is good.

[impresaria1.livejournal.com]

Hi!
So nice to hear from you. Tryptophan gives me relief of all depressive symptoms within 20 minutes. I'm going to go take some in a moment; I usually take it at bedtime. I totally respect if it's not your cup of chai.

I am reeling after getting three emails from Rob. No, he doesn't want to see me; he just wants to see James on his birthday. I feel horrible!

Re: Joy is good.

[mdlbear]

No, he doesn't really want to see James, he just wants to make you feel horrible.

May have to look at tryptophan, especially if the D doesn't work.